(no subject)
Jul. 24th, 2007 12:56 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jebbypalReligion beat became a test of faith.
While reading this article, one of my main issues with many fundamentalists (of almost any religion) crystalized once again. I'll speak in terms of Christianity as it has been the one I've encountered the most.
God gave us free will, and yet, everything is attributed to God's will. It's a conundrum that I've never been able to solve well for myself. I'm much better at believing if the God you give me is aloof and letting us figure out our own mistakes with just a list of guidelines. But when you insist that every bad, good, and in between thing is God's will, I can't accept it. Primarily because it absolves us of personal responsibility. Secondarily, I find no comfort in the idea that bad things happening to good people is all part of a greater plan.
It was that conundrum that pretty much led to my rejection of organized religion. I pretty much choose and pick of what I want now and in the end hope that if there is a higher power, it's not narcissistic enough to insist that I acknowledge and pay fealty to it.
But at the same time, growing up struggling with that, it makes it so that I actually get disgusted when I read articles like this. Now, granted, everyone's religious journey is a personal one and there's not a right or a wrong one (unless it leads you to do truly heinous things). But at the same time, I can't help but feel that the author is missing something bigger -- every situation has to be about God calling him, rather than just the foibles of the imperfect. Everything has to be about a plan.
Blah, I'm repeating myself. It boils down to what I always say, half-jokingly - when a religion actually prevents a war, sign me up for it. Until then, I'll stay over here in my own personal space.
While reading this article, one of my main issues with many fundamentalists (of almost any religion) crystalized once again. I'll speak in terms of Christianity as it has been the one I've encountered the most.
God gave us free will, and yet, everything is attributed to God's will. It's a conundrum that I've never been able to solve well for myself. I'm much better at believing if the God you give me is aloof and letting us figure out our own mistakes with just a list of guidelines. But when you insist that every bad, good, and in between thing is God's will, I can't accept it. Primarily because it absolves us of personal responsibility. Secondarily, I find no comfort in the idea that bad things happening to good people is all part of a greater plan.
It was that conundrum that pretty much led to my rejection of organized religion. I pretty much choose and pick of what I want now and in the end hope that if there is a higher power, it's not narcissistic enough to insist that I acknowledge and pay fealty to it.
But at the same time, growing up struggling with that, it makes it so that I actually get disgusted when I read articles like this. Now, granted, everyone's religious journey is a personal one and there's not a right or a wrong one (unless it leads you to do truly heinous things). But at the same time, I can't help but feel that the author is missing something bigger -- every situation has to be about God calling him, rather than just the foibles of the imperfect. Everything has to be about a plan.
Blah, I'm repeating myself. It boils down to what I always say, half-jokingly - when a religion actually prevents a war, sign me up for it. Until then, I'll stay over here in my own personal space.
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-24 05:04 pm (UTC)Yeah. That's how I feel as well.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-24 07:22 pm (UTC)*nodsnodsnods* That paragraph is pretty much exactly how I feel about it too. If you're going to say that God intervened for you every time something bad almost happened but didn't, then it follows that every time something didn't, God chose not to intervene. And that just doesn't make senes to me. I went through a phase where I was looking into Wicca and read an essay about the idea that maybe God is still growing and learning from the things that s/he created and when s/he doesn't intervene, sometimes it's because s/he can't - doesn't have that power. And I found that a really powerful idea. It makes a benevolent God possible in my mind because all powerful and benevolant just doesn't fit with what I see in the world and 'free will' just doesn't cover it all.
And yes, I hate to see people taking things to the length where they abdicate all their personal responsiblity by saying it's all God's plan. I really don't think it could work that way.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-25 10:17 pm (UTC)So...you have free will to make your choices. You can choose to love God and go to Heaven or chose not to love God and go to Hell. Really, when you think about it, that's not much of a choice. Do what God wants and be rewarded or reject Him and be punished.
It's the false logic that always gets me.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-27 06:18 pm (UTC)If I believed that I'd be pissed as shit because, "Fuck, god, then. And s/he/it's plan." I can't respect a deity who "causes" suffering in the name of some grand plan. I REFUSE to worship some entity who would do such things because I don't think it would deserve my adulation.
And, like you, I prefer to use my own intellect, limited as it may be, to parse things out for myself. While not everything needs to make sense, the protestant notion of "god's plan" does not mesh well with the Genesis notion of "free will". THAT'S BECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE. Because religion is created by HUMAN BEINGS who are trying to make sense of this madness we call the universe.
Instead, I choose to believe in science and the miracle (yes, miracle) of evolution and that human beings - occupying our humble station as the only intelligent life on this planet who appears to possess consciousness - can choose to act kindly and bravely and lovingly toward those from whom they stand nothing to gain, just as much as humanity is also capable of great atrocity and cruelty. I think we're special, I think we're beautiful, and capable of wondrous things but must choose to do so. I don't need "god" for that or to find value in good acts.